Proposed to National classes

[Rick Pinkney]

IF (when) we combine classes I'd rather see a pull off if more than 2 people are going for the same weight. If 3 people all want to represent at Worlds, the top placing person is in and the next 2 must pull off for the final spot. The reason for this, that both could go out in the same round but because the guy/girl was at the top of the draw would be eliminated first. However all would have to make their intentions known at registration.

[Will Sarty]

also, would you consider if someone was already at weight. i.e..

If i weigh in at 121.0lbs, and pull the proposed 139lb class. I take 2nd. Would that give me an edge to enter the 121lb class at worlds over the 139lb winner who didn't make that same weight?>

Also, when would those matches take place? If by eliminating categories to not only speed things up, bit to also bring a higher level of competition in each category, why replace it with more matches. Would this be single elimination?

Just some thoughts, not that im against it, but looking at it from all angles

[Andrew Grant]

My two cents on National Classes:

70,80,90,100,100+ Mens ( A 230 puller can compete with any one any size; very few people are so small framed that they can't compete in a 154 class)

70, 70+ Womens ( I don't think we have the numbers to run any more than two full womens classes )

80, 80+ Grand Masters ( 40 year olds are often at the top of the open and don't need their own class )

Less classes means larger classes and more pulling for everyone. Having as many as 64 National champions is a bit of a joke; especially considering that not many more than 100 pullers even show up. For the title to hold more clout we need at least half as many classes with at least twice as many people in each class.

Nationals doesn't need to mirror the world's classes; There are other more effective ways of picking and sending a full team of our very best pullers to worlds.

[Will Sarty]

Not a chance could I find or maintain a sponsor to attend Worlds if I was competing in the 154 Nats. Its unrealistic (unless your Vasgan) for a 132lb'er to qualifyfor Worlds 2 classes above there weight. 3 Classes based on this year. 0-154 is too wide of a range for that level of competition.

Just my opinion

[cleduc]

I'd like to see more women's classes in the open Rick. 65kg up against an 80+ kg person hardly makes any sense and wouldn't reflect the competitors ability within their own weight class. It could also take the possibility of going to the World's away from the 65kg person because they lost to an 80kg+ person. The categories should reflect the world's category as it is a qualifier. This has been an issue for me at the Gould Classic, for some time now... I have to compete in the open class with competitors that don't qualify for the Arnold's due to their weight. My thought on this is that there are weight categories for a reason. I do agree with you Rick that when there are changes in numbers, we should be quicker to reflect those changes. A solution to this could be pulling for cash if there is a sudden spike in numbers that you didn't anticipate.

[cleduc]

I’ve given this more thought and the integrity of the weight classes need to stay intact.

Open classes limit options and opportunities for pullers to fairly compete for National, Provincial and Regional titles.

Limited classes deter new pullers from entering the sport as they may have to compete in an open class by virtue of their weight alone. Someone who is 65kg pulling against an 80+ hardly seems fair unless you’re Barb. (You’re a LEGEND Barb, and an exception to the rule, but let’s face it we’re not all you xo)

Limited classes means that I have to beat someone out of my weight class in order to qualify for a World tournament (i.e 80kg class) in which that person may not qualify by virtue of their weight or they may have no interest in going to the Worlds at all. Again, the Arnold Classic is a perfect example of this. This is not equitable and it puts me in a position where i potentially DO qualify for the Worlds, but i won't make it there because my PROPER weight category doesn't exist.

Limited classes, (open class) takes our ability to choose which weight categories we want to compete in to showcase our talent in. Basically, with this newly proposed 2 weight option, the choices for all those in the 70kg + is to pull or not pull which is hardly a good set of choices at all. Actually, a final choice would be for me to lose in excess of 20lbs in order to compete in another weight category.... ya... no. (Will and Gord... you guys are amazing, but we're also not all you!)

New pullers, or seasoned pullers won’t gain the knowledge and WORKING EXPERIENCE, in their own weight class, to compete on the World stage as they would have had no matching caliber of competition throughout the year. More Regional tournaments are leaving women’s classes open which is hugely limiting for some and by the time they get to the Worlds they have no idea what to expect.

The risk of injury is higher in open categories. (I don’t even have to explain this one)

An open class should be optional for those who want to compete in it rather than being the only option for all weight categories. I understand that if the numbers are small an open category may be required, but what if women knew they had choices, what would they suggest? (example of pulling for cash in the previous post)

Finally, women have migrated to the States to obtain matching caliber of competition; it would be unfortunate if this became a growing trend. I've actually seen some tournaments with a right hand class only.... what??! Why would anyone travel to do just that? (ranting..)

There is less and less talk about advertising for women’s armwrestling it seems, but what I see are dwindling options for the sport to grow, because i hear that people just don't know what else to do. Ask women armwrestlers what they want if you seek a clear answer rather than trimming back weight categories. Personally, no one has EVER approached me to see what I think would attract more pullers, but, with no disrespect intended, I can tell you that this is NOT the way to go.

Anyone could predict that female numbers will decline as weight category and competitive options disappear. I know i want to compete more and many other women feel the same, but We need MORE options not less. We need to talk about the future of women's armwresling and how we can make it grow.

[Jeff Miller]

Fixed Jeff, how does that work

I'm still torn on whether it should go 90kg, 100kg, 110kg then 110kg+ classes

It only adds 2 more classes making it 36 classes total, same amount proposed as Rick, just slightly different

Starting at 65kg is a big jump for a 132 puller. 139lb class makes it possible for a 132 to move up and a 143lb'er to move down making things interesting

I like your weight classes Will. Someone like you needs to have the most input on the lighter end, as a few pounds make a huge difference there!

My two cents on National Classes:

70,80,90,100,100+ Mens ( A 230 puller can compete with any one any size; very few people are so small framed that they can't compete in a 154 class)

70, 70+ Womens ( I don't think we have the numbers to run any more than two full womens classes )

80, 80+ Grand Masters ( 40 year olds are often at the top of the open and don't need their own class )

Less classes means larger classes and more pulling for everyone. Having as many as 64 National champions is a bit of a joke; especially considering that not many more than 100 pullers even show up. For the title to hold more clout we need at least half as many classes with at least twice as many people in each class.

Nationals doesn't need to mirror the world's classes; There are other more effective ways of picking and sending a full team of our very best pullers to worlds.

Andrew's breakdown would be fine for me, but I agree with Will, the 70 kg is too heavy for the lowest class. Will, and other experienced lightweights would know best would know best for that. Other than that, the 100kg top end you would know Andrew, and other 220's if that's good enough. I actually slightly prefer a 105kg top end like Will had, but 100kg could work too.

[Jeff Miller]

I’ve given this more thought and the integrity of the weight classes need to stay intact.

Open classes limit options and opportunities for pullers to fairly compete for National, Provincial and Regional titles.

Limited classes deter new pullers from entering the sport as they may have to compete in an open class by virtue of their weight alone. Someone who is 65kg pulling against an 80+ hardly seems fair unless you’re Barb. (You’re a LEGEND Barb, and an exception to the rule, but let’s face it we’re not all you xo)

Limited classes means that I have to beat someone out of my weight class in order to qualify for a World tournament (i.e 80kg class) in which that person may not qualify by virtue of their weight or they may have no interest in going to the Worlds at all. Again, the Arnold Classic is a perfect example of this. This is not equitable and it puts me in a position where i potentially DO qualify for the Worlds, but i won't make it there because my PROPER weight category doesn't exist.

Limited classes, (open class) takes our ability to choose which weight categories we want to compete in to showcase our talent in. Basically, with this newly proposed 2 weight option, the choices for all those in the 70kg + is to pull or not pull which is hardly a good set of choices at all. Actually, a final choice would be for me to lose in excess of 20lbs in order to compete in another weight category.... ya... no. (Will and Gord... you guys are amazing, but we're also not all you!)

New pullers, or seasoned pullers won’t gain the knowledge and WORKING EXPERIENCE, in their own weight class, to compete on the World stage as they would have had no matching caliber of competition throughout the year. More Regional tournaments are leaving women’s classes open which is hugely limiting for some and by the time they get to the Worlds they have no idea what to expect.

The risk of injury is higher in open categories. (I don’t even have to explain this one)

An open class should be optional for those who want to compete in it rather than being the only option for all weight categories. I understand that if the numbers are small an open category may be required, but what if women knew they had choices, what would they suggest? (example of pulling for cash in the previous post)

Finally, women have migrated to the States to obtain matching caliber of competition; it would be unfortunate if this became a growing trend. I've actually seen some tournaments with a right hand class only.... what??! Why would anyone travel to do just that? (ranting..)

There is less and less talk about advertising for women’s armwrestling it seems, but what I see are dwindling options for the sport to grow, because i hear that people just don't know what else to do. Ask women armwrestlers what they want if you seek a clear answer rather than trimming back weight categories. Personally, no one has EVER approached me to see what I think would attract more pullers, but, with no disrespect intended, I can tell you that this is NOT the way to go.

Anyone could predict that female numbers will decline as weight category and competitive options disappear. I know i want to compete more and many other women feel the same, but We need MORE options not less. We need to talk about the future of women's armwresling and how we can make it grow.

Chantal is it? You and the other women would know best what to do with your weight classes. Why don't you suggest a breakdown that you'd like to see? Do you think we need equal number of women's classes to men's classes? And totally agree right hand only tournaments (like Arnold Classic) don't make sense nowadays. Gotta have both arms equal opportunity.

[Jeff Miller]

IF (when) we combine classes I'd rather see a pull off if more than 2 people are going for the same weight. If 3 people all want to represent at Worlds, the top placing person is in and the next 2 must pull off for the final spot. The reason for this, that both could go out in the same round but because the guy/girl was at the top of the draw would be eliminated first. However all would have to make their intentions known at registration.

How does this work Rick?

[aimee]

I have one thing to say...you have to offer more than 2 women's classes. If the women's classes change, I'm out...for good! There were several tournaments that I wanted to attend, but didn't because of the lack of appropriate women's classes. Every kg counts and to only have 2 classes for the women, I am absolutely positive that you will lose a lot of female competitors, and this would be quite unfortunate, especially at the National level. We want to expand the sport, not decrease the interest. Please, as a female armwrestler who is really looking forward to a lifetime of 'pulling', DON'T change the classes.