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Post by Eric Roussin on Jul 14, 2012 14:21:32 GMT -5
For the WAF World Championships, I would have no issue with this decision if it means the tournament would be bigger and stronger.
I'm not quite sure how I feel about the issue when it comes to Nationals. There are excellent points made for both the status quo and for centralizing them. Right now, I think the main issue is that hardly anyone wants to organize them. This is what we need to fix first.
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Post by Anthony Dall'Antonia on Jul 14, 2012 14:35:42 GMT -5
Would this be a good solution to the problem?
National goes from EAST - WEST every year as it currently is (as long as people are bidding & want to host on both sides of the country)
If there is not a WEST bid to host, Ontario just hosts instead so basically every time there is supposed to be a WEST Nationals, if no bid is made Ontario hosts. Then everyone is happy?
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Post by Eric Roussin on Jul 14, 2012 14:53:35 GMT -5
I think this is probably what would happen anyway -- if no one in the west placed a bid in a "west" year, than anyone would be able to bid, and vice-versa. I think this is what happened for 2013. No won stepped forward until Joanne and Lori expressed interest. It just so happens that Timmins is considered "east" and 2013 is an "east" year.
Finding a host for Nationals was less of a problem during the '90s. This is because the scorekeepers and referees salaries were much lower, and I don't think they had the same arrangement for hotel expenses. Measures were put in place to address the situation ("why would I want to spend x amount of dollars to travel to nationals just to work?"), which is a good thing. But I think now this chunk of change (close to $10K) is just too risky for a Nationals promoter.
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Post by chrisgobby on Jul 14, 2012 15:08:22 GMT -5
Promoter should have the right to hire local score keepers and refs. This would save the promoter tons of $$. However then the downside would mean less cross country paid vacations for some.
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Post by The Grippler on Jul 14, 2012 15:26:35 GMT -5
Hey Ian, if you are thinking about putting in a bid you should.. maybe even as a group hosted by your club if that works better. I wouldn't worry about popularity, if it's in Ontario it will be a great turnout & I will come support your event. I agree with you that in Ontario it will be a success with a large number of entries. My only concern is the fairness to other provinces. Here is something for EVERYONE from EVERY province to think about.. Let's say at WAF Worlds they said from now on we want worlds to be held in EUROPE only every year because there are more countries there & there will be better entry numbers & it will be tougher to win there. You can't host if you are in little North America.. Yes the entries would probably be higher & Yes the competition would probably be tougher. Does this mean it's better all around for the sport? How would everyone in Canada feel about this? Extremely valid point AD I would ask what the state of WAF was financially? if it's near bankrupcy and this was based on survival , though I wouldn't like it and of course would not make the trip annually (of course assuming i qualified every year) But I would eventually go. I went to Germany for Arm wars last May so i will travel. |
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Post by The Grippler on Jul 14, 2012 15:41:55 GMT -5
Promoter should have the right to hire local score keepers and refs. This would save the promoter tons of $$. However then the downside would mean less cross country paid vacations for some. I see where your going with this however I would think of Quality control. The Cheif reef should be there as the overall fairness & Quality control officer. three tables runing so at least 2 master reffs flown in if the province cannot provide them. inter provincial reffs receive a wage and hotel. Am I off base is this what happens anyway have I cut any coast at all lol! I agree reff's need compensation for a long weekend of work and abuse some times. And I want to say this as well though reffs were around way before I got in the sport I feel many who have years of experience actually have improved in my 7 years. Early video I could see many blow or missed calls. Now I film or watch Scotts film and can honestly say there bang on. Case n point I read hugh brodie commentin on a Tim Bresnan call that Earl & Dave called. At first I was in agreement then I reviewed the footage and under the "Running Foul rule" they were spot on and lol they were my rules lol! better reffs than my penute gallery eys . |
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Post by hughbrodie on Jul 14, 2012 23:12:00 GMT -5
Switching from AW to chess - here are some examples of how some national championships are assigned:
National "Open" (annual) - open to any player (in the world). It is bid on 1 (sometimes 2) years in advance. The bidders could be from anywhere in Canada. If the bid looks good (or if there are competing bids, one looks better than the others) it is voted on by the Governors and usually accepted. Toronto has a standing offer to hold the event if no one bids for it. (it was even held in Kapuskasing two years in a row - what disasters those were!). Toronto last year, Victoria BC this year, Ottawa next year.
National "Closed" (supposed to be annual) - open only to Canadians above a certain rating level. Bidding is as above - but generally it's not held if there are no bidders. Guelph ON in 2010, Montreal this year, not held in 2011 (no bid), no bid (yet) for 2013.
Canadian Chess (Youth) Challenge (annual) - one player per province from each grade. (1-12) Round-robin competition between provinces (i.e. 9 games over the long May weekend). There is a 6-year rotation - last I heard it was Que/Ont, West, Que/Ont, Maritimes, Que/Ont, West. Halifax this year.
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Post by Eric Roussin on Jul 15, 2012 6:03:55 GMT -5
Is there a World Chess Championship for which competitors must qualify to compete at by placing at a Nationals event?
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Post by hughbrodie on Jul 15, 2012 8:36:24 GMT -5
In chess, the rules for qualification to the World Championship cycle change continually. Now I believe it's a 2-year cycle. Canada is one of a couple of dozen "zones" around the world (a varying number of players from each "zone" qualify for the World Championship knockout event). Canada's "Closed" championship is a Zonal tournament - so the top (maybe the top 2) finisher(s) qualify for the KO (which is usually about 128 players - with a few seeds). The KO matches consist of 2 games - if it's 1-1; sets of 2 more games are played at faster time limits until a winner is decided. The final 8 play in a round-robin event a few months later; then the top 2 play for the World Championship.
To make it short - yes, you must play (and win) in the "Closed" (Zonal) championship to qualify for the World Championship cycle. Entry fees (usually more than) cover the expenses of the winner to the KO (as well as tournament expenses). There are usually 40-50 entries - most paying about $150 each to enter.
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Post by johnroberts on Jul 15, 2012 9:46:23 GMT -5
I think that the Nationals should be open to any Canadian citizen without qualifying at a provincial championship.
If I lived in Thunder Bay and the Provincials were in Toronto it would cost at least 600 dollars to attend. Then the Nationals are in Nova Scotia, there is another 1000 at least. Now the worlds are in Braszil for 10 days. There is at least 3 grand. 5000 for three tournaments is alot of cash. Sponsors,mom and dad cousins,pop bottles,paper route, and whatever other resources that you can think of to get you there.
Its tough.
I have been through it a few times and I will tell you that it is a great experience for sure but the money saved is better used on my kids and home life than chasin a passion. Plus I can pull world class armwrestlers here in my own backyard if I want.
Just sayin
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